Just noticed that this is open source. This is a good starting place for any male considering hrt.



http://www.merck.com/mrkshared/mman...p#A019-269-2942

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And we'll collect the moments one by one. I guess that's how the future's done. Feist, "Mushaboom", 2005

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what male does not consider it? It is very interesting, there is no question that many males our age and younger are on their own "hrt" only at supraphysiologic levels. I would fall into that category. I really do not want to settle for the status quo (for me that is being a skinny kid), i really want to be muscular and , frankly, impressive for my age and do it safely. I also believe that this can be accomplished successfully and safely using the right supplements and tests most of which appropriately are currently being used with traditional hrt. I aslo believe in hrt rather than trt since i think that is just a piece of the puzze and that folks who believe otherwise are just being short sighted. Hope i did not hijack this thread to badly and apologize if i did.

But youare a big boy HD, you can take it! Besides, i really need someone to argue with! I feel this huge vacuum in my life since swale has departed. Well, off to pop my 50 mg of dhea with my calcium ascorbate/NAC cocktail.

jb

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Well JB, maybe there will be an issue that will have us at odds with each other--I just haven't found it yet! A while back, I proposed doing a FAQ for the HRT forum. We had a few of Swale's articles that served this purpose and they disappeared. The alternative, I decided was to either summarize the work of the others or post from reliable sources. I've chosen the latter.

I agree that from a longitudinal prespective it is more useful and healthy to explore the total gamit of HRT than TRT alone. TRT is not to be confused with the more general benefits of antiaging medicine. Dr. Eric Braverman published a seminal article in the 2004-2005 Protocols for antiaging thru 4AM. He reviews all of the major biological systems and describes how each goes through its own "pause". This same article then discusses the evaluative criteria and alternative interventions for each.

Here at CEM though, men come to learn about steroids. Steroids are hormones. Is it that we are unhappy with ourselves in the gym or the bedroom that brings us here? For me it was a bit of both. Life had changed and like yourself I was not prepared to accept those changes without a rigorous investigation of the alternatives. This lead quite naturally into the evaluation of need and trials for HGH, testosterone, hcg, Clomid, arimidex, dhea, melatonin, thyroid, tribulus, PS, alcar, l-car, alpha-gpc, piracetam, r-ala, 1-test, 4AD, 6-oxo, wellbutrin, provigil, gaba, and other things over the past 2-3 years. And the search is not over. I just signed up for a weekend endo seminar thru 4AM in Vegas this May.

So for longevity purposes, let's start threads for all the major "pauses". Got a good one for thyroid? How do we mark a thread with a sticky?

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Consider it done.


jb

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Jb, thank you for having the gonads to say something that I think I have not been able to for various reasons.

Could you give me(us) more on your views. I think we are on the same page but not sure yet and I dont want to go off and get egg on my face.

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Head, can you give more info on the endo seminar in LV? Is it 4AM or ??

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http://www.worldhealth.net/event/pdf/May2005-intro.pdf

this is an intensive 30 hr workshop. Starts on a Friday @6pm and ends Sunday night. They haven't sent the schedule yet. Obviously it covers more than test and est..The 30 cme's are of no use to my psych or substance abuse licenses. Just feel I'm ready to step up & learn with the physicans.

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And we'll collect the moments one by one. I guess that's how the future's done. Feist, "Mushaboom", 2005

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wow, thought it was a day long. Thanks anyway. Give those MDs hell when it comes to T and E!

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quote:

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Originally posted by jawbone
wow, thought it was a day long. Thanks anyway. Give those MDs hell when it comes to T and E!

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And we'll collect the moments one by one. I guess that's how the future's done. Feist, "Mushaboom", 2005

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A Weekend enodo seminar souds like fun. Jawbone, by establishing baselines for testosterone via bloodtest, we have come to trt baselines. To some extent, some endo's like swale(actually not an endo but a do who has found a niche) has decided that the well being of the patient is best suited by keeping the test in the upper tertile of the range. It all comes down to what our goals are. If i can acheive the same hormonal balance ie resonable levels of estrogen, cortisol, as and few others and be supraphysiologic in my test levels i see no reason not too since that is what I want. I like being 200lbs not 165lbs. I also believe that hrt rather than just trt is a goal we should strive for, that is, why not, in the absence of contradictatory evidence, try to bring up other horomes that decline with age to normal levels. You know that i am primarily talking about dhea here. With all the recent studies enumerating the postive outcomes of maintaining dhea in normal ranges in healthy men it seems a no brainer. Of course no docs are going to get rich prescribing dhea. It has made no sense to take a piece of the puzzle like some docs do and stick strictly to trt. You rally need a more "wholistic" doc that looks at the whole puzzle and is willing to think out of the box not a cookie cutter (this is what has been done and approved and that's all you are going to get). I mean if some docs are willing to prescribe HCG because their patients are reporting an increased sense of well being, why not dhea?

jb

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Head, I do not remember saying that. Not many docs will mention ANY association much less any relationship with AAS users(bodybuilders). It aint good for them to do so.


JB, I am now really starting we are on the same page. And I think that was one big issue that sat poorly with some. I will go further( to see if you still agree) and add to the above that I also feel that using other steroidal compounds can be adjuctive too. Your thoughts?

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I have read many posts where the hrt crowd say nandrolone decanate has no place in hrt. Its true our body does not produce it so when taking it we are really not replacing a hormone . That does not mean it should be dismissed as nothing more then a body building steroid.Certain people go on to say that if your doing deca you might as well turn yourself in to the authorities. Let me say this. I know of many people that will swear that deca is a lifesaver when it comes to joint problems. The naysayers may counter with ther fact that there are many other drugs that can be used for joint problems that are fda approved. There sure are we always have vioxx, celebrex, and then theres tylenol. Anyone ever seen a liver profile of an individual that takes tylenol on a regular basis.
On another note. I can provide you many many testimonials from patients that are using HGH to help with Rheumitoid Arthritis. Every single person thatI know of that is taking it will tell you it is the miracle drug they have been looking for. It really amazes me that the use of HGH for RA has not become publicized. My mother had RA and it was not the disease that killed her it was the years of conventional drugs she was given to fight it that got her.

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Jawbone, i think it safe to say we are on the same page. Likewise pfjoy. I have to add that i do not do 17aa's.

jb

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Interesting point and to the point I might add. Nandrolone has helped my chronic joint problems tremendously. I have recently cut back on my dosage and I have to admit that I can tell the difference after a month.

I would like to see the pharmacies offer the faster acting/faster clearing nandrolone version. The name escapes me right now. But this would be nice for us so that if we need to DC or reduce a dose of a med for any reason, we can do so rather quickly-- closer to the biological acticity of the test cyp many of us use with it.

I wish I could get some good info re nandrolones' effect on prostate tissue. I had a thread with Nandi a while back where he mentioned it might be more androgenic then currently thought of.
Interestingly, I have read though that it does convert to E although very little compared to T(about 5-10% of what T does) and it does increase H and H more than T itself. So if guys are thinking of using it at small doses for musculoskeletal problems, it would be wise to check E at least once or twice and have a CBC done to be safe. Also a PSA check every year would be good too.

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JB, I can understand why you would not use a 17aa. Is oxandralone that hard on the liver?? I have read that many burn pts take it in very high dosages for long periods of time without consequence. Is it as hard as the widely prescribed drug Accutane(sp) for instance?
That reminds me I have to take my Tylers liver de tox!

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